The Mark Perlberg CPA Podcast
The Mark Perlberg CPA Podcast
EP 042 - Mastering Delaware Statutory Trusts & UPREITS w/ Jason Pueschel
Join us with expert Jason Puschel to discussDelaware Statutory Trusts (DSTs) - as a way to own a small piece of big properties and earn money without the hassle of managing them! Imagine owning a tiny piece of a big building and getting some money from it without doing much. Jason, who knows a lot about making DST platforms, will help us understand how this works easily.
We'll also talk about the tricky parts of using a DST with something called a 1031 exchange, which lets you swap one property for another without paying extra taxes right away. Jason will share tips on managing debt, choosing new properties within a 45-day window, and examples of properties you can get with DST, like college housing or commercial buildings.
We'll explore different kinds of DSTs, their financial perks, and how to exit them smoothly. Jason will share a special trick called "upreads" to access cash in a unique way and how to swap DST shares for units in a real estate investment trust (REIT). Lastly, we'll talk about often-missed topics like tax effects, saving on capital gains, planning estates, and how cost segregation affects your tax forms related to DSTs and UPREIT investments. Let's learn together about these smart real estate tax strategies!
Want to hear more from Jason? Email him at: jpueschel@alternativewm.com, and visit: alternativewm.com
Thank you everybody for tuning in and listening to the Mark Proberg CPA podcast. We are joined by Jason Puschel to talk about Delaware statutory trusts. This is probably something that the majority of you have not heard of as an opportunity to defer taxes indefinitely on your real estate capital gains. We're also going to talk about upgrades and how that goes hand in hand with statutory trust. I've been wanting to talk about this for a while. It's a great alternative for some of you who can't find the proper replacement properties for 1031s, Some of you looking to go a little more passive. This is just something else you want to add to your arsenal and consider when you have a capital gains event coming up. Jason does a lot of other stuff. We're going to talk mostly about these two topics, but he's a great resource for tons of other things as well. Jason Puschel, can you introduce yourself in 60 seconds or less and tell everybody what you do before we jump into our conversation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, thank you, mark, Appreciate being on your podcast today. My background is more on the institutional side, helping sponsors create products. About eight years ago, I created this platform that's focused on all different types of tax mitigation strategies, whether it be what we're talking about today capital transitions where people are sitting on capital gains and they're trying not to incur capital gains tax or income tax mitigation. We're heading into our busy season right now year-end with income tax mitigation. We also do a lot with tax credits, but I have a long background with 1031. I actually helped one of the larger sponsors create their DST platform. It's been a really great way for those in particular that want to retire to become passive in their real estate investments.
Speaker 1:It's really great when I looked at some of the work that you guys do. You can also advise on topics as general 1031s and qualify opportunities on funds. You can bring insight on a variety of capital gains strategies and help with not only implementing them but also giving an unbiased look at what may be most work best for the type of clients we're going to talk about who the DST is best for, but first let's talk briefly, before we go into that, on what is a DST, can you tell? Now I could explain it, but I have a feeling you could, in much more simpler words, explain to our audience of some CPAs, but mostly general investors, what is a Delaware statutory trust and how can we use it.
Speaker 2:As the name implies, it is a trust that's formed in the state of Delaware which the sole purpose really is to facilitate fractional ownership of real estate that qualifies for a 1031 exchange. Fractional ownership meaning investors can pool their money together to acquire larger, more institutional quality properties than they would be able to otherwise, and they're also getting professional management, which is key to a lot of investors' decision to go the DST route, because many have for decades worked with the three T's tenants, toilets and trash and real estate is super labor intensive and they work really hard and they get to the point where they want to retire and they don't realize there's a solution out there for them to be a passive owner. And that's really what the DST provides a professionally managed fractional ownership of real estate.
Speaker 1:Right. So one of the things we were going to talk about here is who is the DST best for and when we think about who this works for. In my mind and you kind of discuss this as well it's really good for people who they pay their dues. They built up a ton of equity. They're about to offload all their real estate now and they don't want to be hit with capital gains. They want to have a nest egg and they want to move into the passive bucket not just passive income for tax purposes, but truly passive, not worrying about evicting people. And the three T's and it seems like that demographic of the people who are more seasoned in the later years of life are the most common people investing in DSTs. But can you clarify with me or confirm, what type of people are DSTs the best for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd agree with that, Mark, because typically the younger folks that are super active in real estate and acquiring properties and managing properties they really like to do it themselves. They want properties that they can touch and feel and have active participation in. It's more for those that are seeking to shed management responsibilities and they're looking to retire, they're looking to become passive. Or there's another set of investors who use it for remainder equity, and what I mean by that is maybe you do have the active real estate investor who has acquired a property and has left over capital that didn't fit into another purchase and usually they just go and pay the tax on it. But with a DST having a minimum investment threshold of only $100,000, if they're buying a larger piece of property and they've got $100,000, $200,000, $300,000 left over, we can fully defer that transaction.
Speaker 1:Right, wonderful, and I'm probably going to have a whole topic just on strategies with BOOT. And as I was researching some of your materials, it never occurred to me really that this is a huge opportunity for folks who, let's say, you're doing a 1031 exchange and you got your replacement property, you're super excited about it, but you don't have enough to get to say that you've invested in equal or greater value on that 1031. You can take some of the remaining funds and put it into the DST. The DST is going to have some leverage on it as well. Correct To give you enough basis to most likely implement this 1031 exchange without any taxable BOOT.
Speaker 2:Right. So the rule for 1031 exchange is you need to acquire property that has a greater or equal amount of value, and it has to have the same amount of debt on it as the property that you relinquished. And so you know this is a way to buy into an offering that is prepackaged with debt, and so when you come into a DST, you don't have to worry about acquiring debt. Some have zero debt, but there's all different flavors of DSTs where you can get some with high leverage, no leverage, middle of the road leverage, and so you're able to match up your requirement of the amount of debt that you need from the property that you sold.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and another thing as you talked about. So we've had clients that had, you know, they're selling their property, their active real estate investors, the replacement property is fantastic here, and let's say they, the replacement property is of equal value of the sales property. Well then you think to yourself this is the way I'm seeing it, I want to get your thoughts. So let's say you buy a property for half a million, you sell it for a million. Or let's say you buy a million, selling it for two million. You could certainly, you know, roll it into a $2 million property, but now we're not fully maximizing leverage. I would think here, right, Because you could also take that, let's say, instead of replacing the property with a $2 million property, you know we only need for, you know, maybe let's say, 20% down, $400,000 of the sales proceeds to purchase that $2 million property.
Speaker 1:So let's say we want to maximize leverage, to maximize cashflow, to maximize assets and maximize depreciation that we can gain access to in this transaction. So maybe we say, hey, instead of rolling all our funds into a real replacement property to minimize leverage, why don't we put 20% down and the rest of it we can roll into a DST and now we have more assets working for us and giving us tax benefits of benefits of depreciation and more cashflow.
Speaker 2:So there is that concept and it worked better, honestly, mark, when interest rates were 2% as opposed to 7% or 8%. Right now, you know, people are tending to go a little bit the other way, based on the interest rates, and a lot of the DSTs have lightened up on the loan to value. But there are some interesting plays called zero coupon, just like zero coupon bonds. They don't pay any interest rate and they have a higher leverage, like 80%, and you're really buying them as a growth of wealth strategy because all of the income from the property goes to paying down that debt. So you are leveraging your equity quite a bit. But with current interest rates, we do find that people are actually lightening up on the leverage that they're using.
Speaker 1:Right. Yeah, things are changing a lot with the way that we see our clients looking at what makes sense for them. Because when we were in a rapid not only low interest but rapid inflation where and the properties were just growing in value year after year, it was like you couldn't go wrong. And the refies were just amazing for our clients where they could buy a property, get a nice 100% bonus appreciation which has gone an hour at 80. And then they could refi and take a big chunk of their down payment back and reinvest and get more tax savings. And now it's a little bit harder to do that because of the current economic situation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. I think these days we find more that people are really just trying to match up their requirement. If they, let's say, had a property that had 30% leverage that they sold, they're trying to stick with the 30% level and not to go too much higher than what they're required to do. But in general it's just a great tool because the debt that you get on a DST is non-recourse to the investors, so it doesn't show up on your personal credit rating. You're not personally liable. Hopefully everything goes smoothly with the DST, but there's never a chance, basically, that they can come to you for a capital call and say we need you to add more money because things aren't working out with the debt. So it really protects you as an investor against the use of debt.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. So I have a client right now who's 62 and is looking to be passive and I'm sending him the recording. Right after this he had the short-term rental, it cashloaded, well, he's going to sell it at a wonderful profit and I said but hold on, before we have a couple of days of closing, let's consider the DST as one of the options to mitigate capital gains here. Properties closing in about a week. Let's talk about the process here for implementing the DST or even considering it as one of your options. So, before you close on the property, I believe it would be very similar to a 1031 exchange here, right when you just you have your intermediary. The sale of your property goes that intermediary. You have 45 days to identify the replacement property and one of those options would it be the trust. Can you walk us through how this may be a little different from the 1031 and what that's like for someone who may be considering the DST?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, mark. So to be clear, you're not changing any of the rules with the 1031. Dst is just a replacement property option, just the same as you would buy a Walgreens or another duplex or whatever you would buy. Dst is just one other option to buy as replacement property within a 1031. So you gotta stay within the 1031 framework which is going into the transaction. And I can't tell you how many people call me up and say I wanna do a 1031 and I ask them so when's the closing? Well, it was last Friday. Well, we could talk opportunity zones and, mark, we could do another segment separately on opportunity zones. But at 1031, you gotta get in advance of the transaction closing to get it structured for a 1031. And you hit on it completely accurately. You gotta set up the qualified intermediary, you gotta they set up an escrow account. The qualified intermediary really functions in a lot of different capacities but they're gonna work with the closing attorney to put just a couple of sentences in the closing document that states your intention is to do a 1031 exchange with some or all of the proceeds and then at closing, the closing attorney's gonna direct a wire to the escrow account for the equity portion If the investor wants to take some money out, they can.
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't know that either. You can take money out. You're just gonna pay tax on that pro rata amount that you didn't roll into the 1031. And then another wire goes to the bank if you had debt. So you get a wire that goes to the escrow account for your 1031 proceeds. If you owe debt, a wire goes to the bank to pay that off. And then if you wanna take some money out, you could do that. And then the clock starts ticking and it's 45 days, as you mentioned, to identify replacement property, 180 to close on the transaction. Now here's where the DST really comes in. To simplify things and we like to work in advance of a transaction with clients to really educate them on their options so that going into the closing they might already know what they wanna acquire. And if that's the case they could do their closing on a Monday, do the paperwork for a DST on a Tuesday and be done and purchase that DST by the end of the week.
Speaker 1:So is the property that the DST is going into already selected? At that point Because I know that we have the three rules we need to say that we've identified either up to two properties it could be up to 200% or it could be an unlimited number of properties, as long as we close on 95% of them. So let's say we're considering maybe two other. Let's say we have some other options, like, let's say we wanna buy a property that fits what we're looking for we're not sure once it's gonna close and we also wanna consider a DST in that 45 day window as an alternative. So how do we make sure we're following those three rules one of those three with the 1031 and DST?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so typically the investor utilizes the 200% rule. So you're right, there's three different rules that you can go by. The three property rule you identify just three properties but the 200% rule. The second way that you could do it is you can identify as many properties as you want, as long as the value of those properties collectively don't exceed 200% of the value of the property you relinquished. And so DSTs basically can be added as multiple backup options or multiple different options, and it's not gonna get you in trouble with the 200% rule.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, gotcha. So when you're doing this now, is a property already selected within that DST, or is it just shares of a property that'll eventually have this value?
Speaker 2:No, so there's what's called the seven deadly sins of a DST. These really are things that protect an investor. One of those things is that you can't acquire additional properties inside a DST, meaning when you buy a DST, it's already got the property or a handful of properties that is going to be the ones that you own. So it's not what they call a blind pool, where you're coming in and you trust they're going to acquire properties based on what they said they're going to acquire. You know exactly what it is when you go and look at it.
Speaker 1:Great. So some of the things that I noticed that you guys have looked at are college housing and maybe some commercial or industrial type of real estate. I'm not sure if you would be able to answer, but what would one expect to see when they roll their funds into a DST? What type of properties are investing in and what would be a range or an expected type of profitability when they roll their funds into the DSTs?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So DSTs come in a lot of different flavors. Multifamily has been predominantly the most popular, you know. I would say that 55% of all DSTs done are in the multifamily sector. And you're talking, not you know. People think, well, I own multifamily and they're thinking a couple of duplexes and things. But these are large, institutional grade properties 350, 250, 450 unit complexes, resort style pools, clubhouses, fitness centers geared towards young professionals or retirees. These days most of them are 93 plus percent occupied. So why people are drawn to the multifamily is a high number of tenants and a high stability of that tenancy.
Speaker 2:Typically we see, you know those type of yields in the upper threes to the range, all the way up to the 5% range. That's kind of the average in the marketplace right now, based on where cap rates are. You also have self-storage offerings that could have a little bit higher yield. Self-storage you're buying into a portfolio of several different you know properties perhaps, and some I've seen range from 800 units to 2,000 plus units. You mentioned student housing. There's industrial a lot of, like Amazon distribution warehouses. That industrial as well might be smaller manufacturing type facilities. There's Netlease, which is Netlease retail, like Dollar General stores or the kidney dialysis centers and FedEx distribution shops. And there's also, you know, health care, which you know is a Netlease sector as well. Again, I mentioned the kidney dialysis. There's urgent care. So, again, there's a lot of different types of DSTs that you could look at.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. Now, before we talk about upgrades, what's the typical next step? It looks like that's. That is the. Unless you're looking at upgrades, that's pretty much your last step is you know, you take your fortunes, you roll into a DST and you enjoy the tax benefits of the cash flow, is there, but without talking about upgrades? Is there another next step as far as exit strategies from the DSTs and what people are doing?
Speaker 2:Yes. So I mean with the DSTs we kind of jokingly refer to it as mailbox money, because you don't have to do anything. You sign up for the DST, it's professionally managed, you have a manager who's looking for a profitable exit, hopefully, and so it's direct deposits monthly of cash flow into your bank account. So you really don't have to do anything. But you do need to know that they are illiquid, the structures you know. It's not something you could buy today and get out whenever you decide you want to go out and exit. Typically they range four to seven years in duration and again the professional manager is going to find an exit, hopefully that's profitable, and they could go upwards of 10 years. That's kind of how long some of the debt is matched up with it. But usually they're looking for an exit in four to seven years. But it is illiquid and people should know that when they go into it.
Speaker 1:So when we see an exit in four to six years, you know it's sold at a profit and at that point you can pretty much roll it into another DST just in the same fashion. Is that a fair assumption?
Speaker 2:Well, the idea is hopefully it's sold for a profit, but it is real estate and you know the real estate market will dictate what the outcome is. You own a fractional share, so whatever amount you invested, you get your fractional percentage of ownership of that property and so, yeah, it will dictate. You know the exit and the profitability will basically be dictated by the marketplace. And then at that point you know you could decide to do another 1031 exchange where you're sending rather than taking the proceeds, just like when we started the transaction. You sold the property, you went to the qualified intermediary escrow account and you invested in the DST. You do the same thing again. They give you a notice we anticipate selling the property in the next six months. You'd line up the qualified intermediary, the proceeds goes back to the QI and then you'd have the ability to do another 1031 exchange.
Speaker 1:OK, great. So maybe this is back to this example where maybe you're you decide that you don't want to be passive anymore or you find some opportunities to partner with other people, maybe do a tendency common 1031 exchange. So there's the opportunities to go back into deferring the gain and putting into something that you manage, and then there's tons of other capital gains. Strategies like qualified opportunity zones, et cetera. Et cetera Is now what I'm wondering is now, when we think about the economic benefit of DSTs, is it? Do people typically see a greater economic benefit in the form of cash flow or capital gains, or does that just depend on the investment?
Speaker 2:So it really depends on the investment. Your cash flow is really going to be dependent upon what the property is, what the location is, what the performance is with the tenants and then same with the exit. It's really going to dictate, based on what the market is to sell the property. So they're going to try to wait until there's an opportune time to find a suitable exit strategy for the properties.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, now let's talk about upreads now, which is and most people don't know about DSCs, but those who do probably don't know about upreads so let's talk about how we can use. So tell us about how we can use upreads now as a vehicle to gain access to our cash in a different fashion.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the upread I liken quite a bit. It gives you an opportunity to increase your potential liquidity and also become more diversified, and it's a two-step process where you do first go into the DST and you're in the DST for a few years, and it has to be a sponsor that offers an upread feature and has a corresponding real estate investment trust. Now you can't go directly into a real estate investment trust or a REIT for short, doing a 1031, but what you can do is go into a DST, acquire a DST property and then typically after two years they offer you the option. You don't have to take them up on it. You could stay the course and go the four to seven years or up to 10 years with the regular DST. But if you choose to take them up on the upread option, you're exchanging your DST shares for operating partnership units in the real estate investment trust and now you're in a larger, more diversified portfolio.
Speaker 2:Potentially A lot of these are targeted to be multi-billion-dollar portfolios that are diversified by geography and tenants and you're getting the market yield of that real estate investment trust that revalues on a quarterly basis and after being in the real estate investment trust for 12 months, typically they will offer you quarterly liquidity provisions.
Speaker 2:So let's say you bought a million dollars in a DST and then two years later you decided to exchange your DST shares for the operating partnership units of the REIT.
Speaker 2:Now you're in this diversified portfolio of income producing real estate, and you've reduced your risk potentially because of the diversification. And after you're in it for 12 months, each quarter they'll say do you want to redeem more than the income that you're receiving? So you could say, yeah, actually I would like to redeem 50,000 of my shares and have you send me a check for that? Now, at that point I mean everything's been taxed, deferred up until the day you say send me an extra check for 50,000. And when you receive that extra distribution, you're taxed on that pro-rata portion that you've removed out of the portfolio and the rest remains deferred. And as with a 1031 exchange, one of the best benefits of a 1031 is when the owner passes on and leaves the real estate to their beneficiaries. The beneficiaries get a step up in cost basis, meaning they permanently eliminate the tax exposure and they assume the cost basis of the value on the data their death. So it still offers that benefit.
Speaker 1:And what's the tax implications when you take out those quarterly distributions? Is it a combination of recapture and long-term capital gains tax at that point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Mark. So your original property follows you through until you either die or pull the money out and pay taxes on it. So the original property that you bought you got to keep track of that cost basis and if you're putting money into it, raising the cost basis and the capital gain exposure and the recapture exposure, that follows you forever. So if you are in the re and you decide, let me pull some money out and they're able to facilitate that for you based on their share redemption program, you're going to pay that pro rat attacks on just the amount that you pull out, based on that ratio of your capital gain and the recapture and all that.
Speaker 1:Great, great Now. And at that point it's too late to go back into a 1031, right From an up read. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:So that is correct, mark. That is one of the negative aspects of the up read. I think that there's a lot of great benefits of the up read, but you can't do another 1031. The only way to exit from that operating partnership unit shares is to exit by selling through the re. So you either sell and exit through the re, which is a taxable transaction, or you just hold onto it in that diversified income producing portfolio, collecting your income and maybe pulling some dispositions out here and there, and ultimately pass away while holding the lion share of your assets in the OP units and you pass along the step up and cost basis to your beneficiaries.
Speaker 1:Okay, great. And then now there's some opportunity to strategize here where you know perhaps you can still defer the gain with a qualified opportunity zone fund. You can still consider maybe if we spread this out, you know if you're at a $0 AGI or you're towards retirement, or maybe you have a negative AGI with all your real estate losses. Maybe we time this to mitigate the tax the any capital gains on the exits of these, based on all the other events occurring and based on what you're doing, after you've worked with tax strategies, on what the potential liabilities are, because they may be none or minimal, depending on how much and when you want to do these quarterly distributions.
Speaker 2:Exactly right. You know, and I think the up re really helps you with that, because you're controlling the timing at that point and you can kind of manipulate the calendar and pull money out when, exactly like you said, when it's going to be least impactful on a year that you might have low or no type of gains or income. So definitely that is true.
Speaker 1:What's interesting is, if I compare this to, it's almost like I like to compare this to a deferred sales trust, where you sell to the trust and the trust sells it to the buyer and then you do an installment sale to get your funds to spread out that capital gains. But the difference here is that you're making money on the security while you're spreading out the capital gains. So hopefully here and hopefully the up read is profitable. So even as you're awaiting your capital gains, as you're waiting your distributions for whenever you need them and there's so much flexibility on when you can do this, you're making profit in the meantime as you're deciding what's your next move and when do you want to take out the funds and what are you going to do with them.
Speaker 2:Well, in last moving parts Mark as well, I mean with the trust that you need to structure. Like that, you've got a lot of moving parts and costs, whereas the DST it's all pre-packaged. You don't have to set up your own trust, you don't have to work with your own attorneys. It's as simple as buying a mutual fund. Really, it's all electronic documents and it's a very streamlined, simplified process, right.
Speaker 1:So I want to get back to just a couple more foundational concepts here of the up read. So I believe you said you had to have it in the DST for about two to three years before you can put it in the up read, correct?
Speaker 2:Typically, most sponsors say it's two years and then they offer you the ability to exchange for OP units. You don't have to, and then typically you're in the REIT for 12 months and then they provide you the ability to have redemption quarterly.
Speaker 1:Right, and now that doesn't necessarily happen. It has to take place.
Speaker 2:Perhaps you would see other people just leaving in the up read because you're still seeing the tax benefits in the cash flow over time, yeah, and I have a lot of people where we, just like you were saying before, you, strategize on the different components or silos or tranches of money that you have and what you want to do with some of your money might be to go into an up read. Some might be stay the course in a DST so you can do more 1031. Maybe some you pull out and you do some opportunity zone fund invest in and ultimately it really differs from investor to investor and there's a big component of estate planning that goes along with it too. Both DSTs and up read are great for estate planning because it converts hard assets that perhaps.
Speaker 2:I had a call this morning where I was on with the investor and his three children and they had zero aptitude in real estate and he knew that and he's like well, I don't want to leave you these five properties that I own. So we're going to phase out selling the properties, moving them into DSTs and we'll assign fractional shares to each of the three beneficiaries. And if something happens to him, there's no need for the kids to worry about what to do with the property because the professionals will handle it. Or if they're in the REIT, the kids can sell immediately. If they're in the DST, they need to stay the course until the program goes full cycle and there's a liquidity event. If they have the REIT shares, they can sell immediately whenever they want if the REIT has that availability.
Speaker 1:Great, great. What are some of the common misperceptions or biggest mistakes that people make in the process of pursuing these strategies?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we talked a little bit about it, mark which is just following protocol and the very specific timelines and 1031 exchange rules that need to occur having that qualified intermediary in place, not taking constructive receipt of proceeds, having 45 days to identify people really misperceive how long that 45 days is and if you haven't done the work in advance of a sale to get comfortable and position yourself so that you know what your options are going into to close, that 45 days goes super quick.
Speaker 1:Got you Okay. I think this is a great conversation. I'm looking forward to sharing this with some of our clients. Some of them are looking to just off-board what they're doing and here's a great capital gain strategy, especially for people now If they're towards the end of their investing career. They've had these properties for a while. There's no more depreciation tax deductions on these old properties. They paid down the mortgage. They have a ton of equity that they can leverage into a larger piece of property. Let's say we paid down a $500,000 property and we're actually sitting on maybe a couple of million dollars of equity because of the fair market value of the property. You can roll this into a DST, get some great cash flow, see some tax benefits, gain access to new depreciation. Your children can have the step-up basis or wherever inherits it. It's a wonderful opportunity.
Speaker 1:A lesser known opportunity for DSTs here is for folks who still need additional resources to implement their 1031 exchange. Maybe the replacement property isn't making the cut to give them access to that equal or greater value on a 1031. This is an additional strategy here as well A lot of cool stuff we can do. Then, when we pull in the up-reach, we have flexibility on the timing of the capital gains and when we can take our cash out. Lots of cool things to consider, and especially if you're working with a qualified advisor, combining this with other strategies, seeing the benefits of cost segregation and how that's going to hit your 1040. When there's an exit if there's an exit, combining that with some other capital gains strategies lots of cool things you can do when you're incorporating the DST into your arsenal.
Speaker 2:Absolutely A lot of moving parts, Mark. No one solution fits all. It really depends on the investor and working through what's right for them.
Speaker 1:For some of these people, listening, reading about what the cost segregation is in the bigger pockets forms is wonderful, but there's a whole lot more out there in tax planning besides cost segregation studies and 1031 exchanges, as you can see.
Speaker 2:Without a doubt.
Speaker 1:Yes, jason. Thank you so much for your time. I'm excited to get to our current audience and to our future clients. When we bring up this conversation of DSTs and how we can relate, we're going to send them this recording and give them greater clarity on the subject matter. To those listening, how can they learn more about you and work with you?
Speaker 2:Yes, so check out our website alternativetaxmanagementcom. It's purely educational. It's got a lot of different case studies and materials on not just 1031 and DSTs, but it talks about opportunity zones and different income tax mitigation strategies, tax credits. We'd love to have you visit. We do some webinars and different things as well All educational stuff that helps people reduce their tax exposure.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thank you so much, Jason, and to anyone listening, if you want to learn more and you're not a current client, email info at markprobergcpacom or fill out the form on our website and we're always hiring, so send us some good people too, because we're growing. Hope you guys enjoyed it, Subscribe like, share it with anyone who you know might be interested. We got some more good stuff coming out soon. Thanks for listening. Thanks.