The Mark Perlberg CPA Podcast
The Mark Perlberg CPA Podcast
EP 122 - Offshore Asset Protection & International Tax Strategies
Mikkel Thorup, an offshore consultant with 25 years of international experience, shares legal strategies for reducing U.S. tax burden through international relocation and asset protection. He explains how these approaches can potentially save six figures annually while remaining fully compliant with tax laws.
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• Most clients seek either a financial "Plan B" while continuing to live in their home country or complete relocation as expats
• High-net-worth professionals and business owners typically benefit most from these strategies
• The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion allows Americans to exclude $126,500 of earned income ($253,000 for couples) from federal taxes
• Qualifying requires either 330 days in foreign countries or establishing bona fide residency abroad
• Territorial tax countries like Panama only tax locally-sourced income, creating powerful tax advantages
• Asset protection benefits become meaningful starting at $500,000 in liquid capital
• Strategies include offshore banking, incorporation, self-directed IRAs, and international real estate
• Proper exit planning from high-tax states is essential before establishing foreign residency
• All international accounts must be properly reported to U.S. authorities, maintaining full compliance
To learn more, join the free Expat Money Summit October 10-12 at expatmoneysummit.com or visit expatmoney.com for resources and the Expat Money Show podcast.
All right, welcome everyone to the Mark Goldberg CPA Podcast. I'm really excited to explore something we haven't had a chance to ever cover on the show, and it's something we get asked about every now and then, and I think for some of you it could be potentially transformational, especially for those of you who really want to win the game in taxes, and there are ways to completely eliminate your federal taxes with the concepts that we are going to discuss today. So I'm going to introduce to you our guests, who I'm very excited about to have a conversation, and this is Mikkel, or Mikkel Mikkel Thorup, mikkel Thorup, sorry and Mikkel is going to help us navigate the space of international tax strategies and, in particular, for those of you in the US, utilizing other international strategies that we'll dive into and positioning your citizenship and or your income into other countries as a tax strategy. Now, mikkel, can you please introduce yourself to the audience in 60 seconds or less?
Speaker 2:I will do my best. So my name is Mikkel Thorpe. I am an offshore consultant. I work in the offshore space helping mostly Americans and Canadians, but technically people from other Anglo-Saxon countries as well to move offshore. So we deal with the tax planning, with the investment side, the structuring, the wealth protection and then, of course, all of the immigration. I am not a lawyer, I'm not a CPA, I'm a consultant, but I have full-time lawyers who work for my firm. We're about a 30-person team. We do a lot of the immigration processes that you've probably read about in the world, In some instances roughly half of the country's visas. For example, in Panama, the qualified investor's visa. We do about half of the country of Panama's visas here between my partners and I and very well-established long-term company helping people navigate this path.
Speaker 1:Okay, wonderful, so tell me. Actually, I'm wondering to know how did you get into this? What's your origin story on how you got down these rabbit holes?
Speaker 2:So for my story I have to go quite far back in time, but I think it is relevant and it'll kind of show you the difference between traditional ways that people enter into markets. So when I was a child, mark, I was actually diagnosed with a learning disability and what happened was one day the teacher pulled me out of class, sat me down in a little room and there was the principal and the vice principal and a resource teacher and they said to me Mikkel, something doesn't work quite right in your brain and what we want to do is send you to a special school, special school for special boys. So that's what they did, mark, every day for three years I got on a little white bus and I took a little white bus across town and I went to this quote unquote special school. Now, unfortunately, it actually was not a special school, it was a regular school with a special class. So I ended up getting in tons of fights and picked on and bullied and it was overall a horrible experience.
Speaker 2:Now, this is no woe. Is me poor Mikkel victim victim type of story? Certainly not. Is me poor Mikkel victim victim type of story? Certainly not. I mean, I got hit. I hit back twice as hard whenever possible. But after a couple of years I got to go back to my neighborhood school and I thought, you know, everyone's going to be missing me and so excited to see me. And once again, you can probably imagine what happened. I got, you know, made fun of and you know oh, I remember Mikkel he went to some retired school. Thanks, guys, Very politically correct. You know how sensitive children can be. But eventually it just left a very bad taste in my mouth for state-run education, public education. So I stopped going to school at 12 years old and at 15, I officially dropped out and I started traveling internationally.
Speaker 2:Not shortly after that, and when I started moving overseas, I started to meet all these incredible people who were doing things in a completely different way, different way that I had ever seen, and quite early on I recognized that these were my people and this is what I wanted to do. I wanted to go out there and explore the world and no one cared that. My disability here was dyslexia and it's like all right. Now, in 2025, we realize dyslexia is not a big deal, but back in the 1980s it was like a criminal offense or something. But fast forward to today and I have been traveling and living overseas for 25 years straight.
Speaker 2:I visited over 120 countries. I've lived in nine. I've circumnavigated the globe over 400 times. We own real estate, my wife and I, in four different countries. I built a business about helping people go offshore and do all the planning, and I tell you this whole story so that you understand that there really is no university degree for what I do. This was boots on the ground, actually going through it and navigating things. And today I consult directly with governments. I meet with heads of state, the president in some countries, advise immigration departments. I work with high net worth families. We run our net worth through a family office setup, so we have done very well in this space over the last couple of decades. But once again, no, no university teaches what I do, which makes it so, so unique.
Speaker 1:So you are definitely not a boring person. That is really, really interesting story. So so tell me about the types of people that this can be applicable to and what they can start doing with some of the strategies that you've implemented.
Speaker 2:Number one is I need a plan B. I don't like what's happening in the world. I want to protect my downside, play a bit of defense and I want to move a bit of money offshore. So this is offshore banking, offshore incorporation, second residency, a second home, maybe a couple of investment properties, maybe some crypto held offshore or some precious metals, some gold, silver, things like this offshore. But they're going to continue living back home. And then a second set of people and I would say it's pretty much a 50-50 divide is the world has already gotten too scary, it's already gotten too bad, and I'm moving offshore now. So not only are we moving all of the funds, we're moving them physically offshore as well, and that's where the expat piece of it comes in. So, living in another country.
Speaker 2:Now, my client base are usually high net worth families. I don't work with the large multinationals. I don't work with corporations. I deal mostly with the family side of things. Corporations I deal mostly with the family side of things. They are either highly paid professionals, like the number one client for me is lawyers, which I always think is quite funny because I'm a high school dropout and my number one clients are lawyers, but it kind of makes sense as well, because lawyers understand the value of specialized knowledge and this is something that they were not able to learn in school. So they bill at, you know, maybe 800 bucks an hour, 1000 bucks an hour, something like that, and if I can save them, you know, 100 hours of research or 1000 hours of research. They end up very, very well. But I'd say about half the clients are accountants, cpas, lawyers, doctors, financial planners, wealth managers, things like this highly paid professionals. And then on the other side is business owners, especially from the brick and mortar space.
Speaker 2:I got, for example, three guys who build roofing. One does commercial, a couple does residential. They got 30, 40 employees. They're the CEO of a company like that. I've got another guy who does stairs, another one who does asphalt. I have someone who does fencing. They do $22 million a year in fencing. It's a lot of fences, you know, but you know that's a pretty wealthy family after you know a couple of decades of running a business like that. So it's these types of businesses that come to me don't like what's happening. They feel a little bit vulnerable. They want to move a bit of money offshore and we do it in a legal and compliant manner, following all of the rules and do it correctly the first time.
Speaker 1:Cool. So let's talk about this first group of people here. So if we are moving our money offshore, we're staying in the US. We want to grow in an offshore account. I've heard of some things in the Cayman Islands and Swiss banks and Mexico and Puerto Rico and Costa Rica. What would I want to think about and what would be the advantages of moving my money and investments offshore from an economic and a tax perspective?
Speaker 2:Very good question. From a tax perspective, there's very little that it's going to matter. If you're a US person, you owe taxes on your worldwide income, no matter where you live. That is the reality of being a US tax person. However, from a privacy standpoint, from a privacy from a liability standpoint, there can be very good advantages. Now, once again, if you're an American, you still have disclosure. I'm not talking about not telling your government. That's tax evasion, we don't promote that at all. But there's privacy from the individual level, there's privacy from the corporate level and then there's privacy from the government, the IRS you got to tell them everything. The Treasury, fincen I mean these guys. They have to know everything. But you can still have privacy on the individual level. So when we do a lot of structuring, especially with assets, we're using things like nominee services, where you know things are not in the public registry. We use the law office's address. You know we use placeholder types of positions and things like that.
Speaker 2:Okay, from the liability side of things, if you have your assets held offshore in an offshore trust or offshore family foundation or something like that, and someone comes to sue you in the United States, you know you don't have to like, pretend you don't have anything and you don't have to pretend that. You know you don't have any money. It's like, no, I have it's all over here offshore. You know you don't have any money. It's like, no, I have it's all over here offshore. You know, feel free to go to this country and go through the court system to try to get it. And the lawyers are going to look at that and they're going to go. Yeah, this is not on contingency basis. You know you're going to have to put up, you know, several hundred thousand dollars in a retainer before I look at this, and even the foreign judicial system will make the bond be put up to be able to sue someone, to pay for the legal side of both sides.
Speaker 2:So you know, forget about these like little factories in the US where they turn out lawyers and all day long all they do is try to sue people and they're only paid if they win the case. They don't take cases like this, okay. And then, lastly, look at a situation like happened in Canada. Look what happened in Canada with the Canadian trucker convoy and freezing bank accounts of anybody who donated money to peaceful protesters in Ottawa. I'm a Canadian citizen. I have a lot of clients who ended up donating, and there's stories of single mothers who couldn't pay their electricity bill in the middle of winter because the government froze the accounts. But if you had a bank account legally offshore and a card or a credit card or something like that, you could have paid your bills. There's so many different dynamics on why this makes sense.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I've heard of one of the people who helps our clients out on some some liability and asset structuring on, you know, revocable bridge trust and foreign revocable bridge trust, where they got to go to a different region to try the clients and by that time it's just not worth it for the for them to to move forward, which seems pretty powerful Now. But on the tax side, as you mentioned, right, so if you think that you can just put all your money in a bank account in Dubai and then you're not going to pay any taxes on the income, you're out of luck because of the worldwide taxable income here. So, but there are some things that people will consider and some will do to reduce their taxes, and that probably involves maybe some more extreme measures if you're not already doing business internationally. So what kind of tax savings opportunities are you finding when you're working with folks?
Speaker 2:So the main one and it's the first tool in the toolbox is the foreign earned income exclusion, the F-E-I-E, which allows you to exclude the first $136,500 from your annual income. Now, this doesn't mean that you don't have to file you still have to file all of this but it allows you to exclude. Now the nice thing actually sorry, it's 126,500. 126,500 is a doubling effect if your spouse is a US tax person, which is rather attractive, because we're talking about a quarter of a million dollars. Now a couple of caveats it has to be earned income, so it's not, you know, passive income or things like that. Now we do have some techniques to take what could be considered passive income and then kind of reclassify them as active income. You know, if you are qualified as a real estate professional, for example, like we deal with a lot of real estate investors, you know we deal with a lot of foreign real estate and things like that that's possible. Or a professional trader or things like that. But the crux of it is that you have to leave. I mean, there are two tests. There's one called the bona fide residency test, the other one is called the physical presence test, and usually what we're doing is the physical presence test in year one and I like this one because it's mathematics it's 330 days inside of a foreign country. So this doesn't mean, you know, sailing around the world and international waters or taking a flight or something like that. It's 330 days with your feet physically located in a foreign country. All right.
Speaker 2:Now, after year one, we can usually swap to the bona fide residency test and this means we're going to get you a residency somewhere else.
Speaker 2:We're going to, you know, re-domicile you so we'll get you know, a change of driver's license. You'll have an electricity bill, a rental agreement, maybe a property you own, it's a bank account. We show some movement, a lot of subjective ties, and what this does is it allows you to spend a little bit more time in the United States. It doesn't mean that you can live in the US full time, and I highly don't suggest going back and signing corporate documents or taking board meetings back while you're physically in the United States. But you want to go back for Christmas, you want to go back for birthdays and Valentines or whatever it might be. There's no problem with that. They even have a formula for doing a pro rata. So if you end up having to spend a little bit more time in the US then it can come out of this 126,500. But this is kind of the first tool in the toolbox when moving people offshore and then it kind of builds from there.
Speaker 1:And if you are. If so, you leave, leave the us. You go to a more tax friendly country. If you maintain your us citizenship, I'm correct if I'm now because I haven't had a chance to consult on this. I could be wrong, but I believe you're still paying taxes on your worldwide taxable income.
Speaker 1:Whatever you don't pay taxes on, at whatever country you're in, the US is going to tax you. So let's say I moved to Dubai, I pay no taxes and the US is going to say, well, since you pay no taxes, we're going to make you pay US taxes. But let's say I moved to a country with like a 10% bracket going to make you pay us taxes. But let's say I moved to a country with like a 10 bracket and if I was in the us it would be a 25 bracket. The us essentially charged me the difference or give me a credit, charge me where the taxes is and give me a credit for what I've already paid in taxes. Is is so and then. So the only way that and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that the only way to really do this then is to discontinue your US citizenship or move to Puerto Rico if you want to completely eliminate your federal taxes. Is that right what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:So four different strategies here and I'll kind of outline them because you got it kind of right. So let's clarify. So you moved to Dubai. Okay, I lived in Abu Dhabi and Dubai for almost a decade. These are tax-free countries, At least when I was there they started bringing in a little 5% corporate tax and some VAT and stuff like that. But let's just say, in this instance tax-free. Okay, Now your first $126,500 is excluded.
Speaker 2:So you file with the entire amount but you're not paying taxes on that first $126,500. Now your spouse is a US tax person, so it's a doubling effect. So we're talking just over a quarter of a million dollars. But let's say that you make more than a quarter of a million dollars, filing jointly. You're going to pay tax on the delta between the quarter of a million and whatever the top amount that you made. So let's say you're making $400,000. You're going to be paying taxes at $150,000 on that amount.
Speaker 2:So that's number one, FEIE. Number two is foreign tax credits. Now, unless there's number one F-E-I-E Number two is foreign tax credits. Now, unless there's a tax treaty in place, the government will allow you to take a credit for the amount of tax that you pay to a foreign country and then you will pay anything above and beyond back to the US. So, in your example, 10%, but you owe 25% to the US. So you would do 10% to France or whatever it is, and 15% to the US. So you would do 10% to France or whatever it is and 15% to the US. But let's say you're paying 40% to France. All right, there would be zero tax to the United States and you would be higher amount in France.
Speaker 2:I don't really work with the foreign tax credits all that much, Because my point is to get you much lower than that and I'm not bringing you to, you know, more abusive tax countries. I not bringing you to more abusive tax countries. I'm bringing you to places in the Caribbean, places in Latin America, where legally there are no taxes in the country because there's something called foreign earned income. So if you have a territorial tax country like Panama, where I am today, Panama only cares about locally sourced income. They don't care about foreign sourced income. So the government of Panama is not going to tax you on anything, even if you're physically located here. All right, Now this is not just Panama, it's Costa Rica and Belize and Nicaragua and Paraguay and Georgia and all these countries around the world. There's actually probably around 30 or 40 countries that fall into this, actually probably around 30 or 40 countries that fall into this.
Speaker 2:And then the next one that you mentioned, I believe, is the Puerto Rico. So Puerto Rico has Act 60, used to be called Act 20, Act 22. I don't do Puerto Rico very much. For me, it's not actually an expat, it's part of the United States, so I put it maybe of a near shore jurisdiction or something like this, where it's more of a domestic play. I also don't feel like it's a permanent solution, where I think the things that we do are a lot more permanent. I expect Puerto Rico to either remove it or to become a state over the next several years, and I'm looking for real, permanent ones.
Speaker 2:And the last one you mentioned is renunciation of US citizenship. Now, this is a very serious one and not one that I encourage people to do, but it is a possibility and it is the only way to truly be done with the IRS forever. I work with a tax lawyer who does roughly 20% of all renunciations on planet Earth through his firm, and we've worked together on many, many cases. And, once again, I'm not encouraging people to do it. But people come to me and they're curious about it, so we do help them with the process. It is a bit complex but it is a viable solution.
Speaker 1:So I imagine you're, and for some so I imagine here and for some of the people listening here, certainly, if you are in some of the industries you listed, like roofing, where there may be a higher than average liability concern, people can get hurt, sue you for whatever reason or blame you for whatever reason. If you're looking to protect your assets in a way where no one can get to them, whether it's as a result of not only your business activities. But what a lot of people forget is you want to protect your assets from any personal liability. So car accident, car accident of a minor or any frivolous lawsuit of any type, your assets, including your personal assets and business assets, are going to be potentially exposed here.
Speaker 1:So if you are the type of person who has a lot of high net worth and has risk exposure, certainly the international strategies for asset protection are going to and it has to be worth the investment right, because I imagine some folks come to you and certainly the international strategies for asset protection are going to, and it has to be worth the investment right, because I imagine some folks come to you and they're like, yeah, I want to be international, I want to protect my assets, and then you realize they only have a net worth of $40,000. It's like it's not worth it. So you need a lot of assets and risk exposure to make sure that the juice is worth the squeeze. At what point would you say people should start thinking about this from an asset protection perspective?
Speaker 2:So I'd say on the very, very, very bottom side, I would say a half a million dollars of liquid capital that we would move offshore might make sense for some of these structures. Most my clients, I would say on average, are around the $10 million net worth, and I've got guys who are well over $100 million who I consult with privately on these types of things and I think at $500,000, it starts to make a bit of economic sense. Less than that, definitely not definitely not.
Speaker 1:And if you're not, so, and then if you're not looking to protect your assets, so, or if you've already protected your assets through this, it sounds like, for moving your income outside of the U S taxation and creating the savings, you really have to have a flexible mindset, you know.
Speaker 1:What I'm thinking, though, is that for, for the right person, if you have a significant capital gain of it, like I'm talking and I'm sure you've seen this, for it may be one of the best capital gains planning strategies there is where you have a and I bet you've seen it where you have some sort of cryptocurrency capital gain that could be life-changing here, and if you do nothing at all, you're paying 20% federal plus 3.8% net investment income tax, federal plus your state taxes, so we're looking at getting into the 30% bracket here. So if you have a life-changing capital gain event, it may even make sense. Even if you don't want to let's say, you want to stay in the US or return to the US some of these ideas may make sense. So what are some examples where you've seen this kind of play out?
Speaker 2:So I mean, I have seen these types of things, but I have to be very careful on how I describe these. I mean, we sometimes look at grantor trusts. I work with some estate tax lawyers that we will do grantor trusts. Now there's a lot of liability that the lawyer is taking on in a position like this. We have to be very careful about these types of things. Same with Puerto Rico.
Speaker 2:Puerto Rico can work with Act 60, but it's kind of dependent on when these things are done. You also have to physically move to Puerto Rico. You have to spend a minimum of 183 days in the country, which is not everybody's cup of tea. When we're looking at some of the other strategies, you can literally live anywhere and in a lot of cases after year one like, well, actually even in year one, you don't have to be in one country. You can be in five different countries. You can move around and be a digital nomad and things like this. So you know, we're looking at some of these ones. And then, lastly, it would be the US renunciation and there are some gifting strategies that can be done on gifting of assets and then a renunciation, especially if you are a married person, and those get a little bit complex in these types of things, but I have been part of the conversation, with this all done with the appropriate legal counsel.
Speaker 1:What do you see people do so they're moving out? Or, from a tax perspective here, what are some potential other things you may have seen them stack on top of this? Or what are they doing with their retirement accounts, their IRAs and 401ks and what other things are they doing that may not be related to moving outside of the country to further reduce their taxes here?
Speaker 2:Okay. So one of the things that we have to look at first is your state income tax. So if you're in California, if you're in New York, if you're in some of these other blue states, when you try to leave, you might be able to reduce or eliminate your federal tax, but that doesn't mean the state is not gonna come after you for state income taxes. So the first thing that we're doing in a situation like this is actually moving people to Florida or Texas or one of these zero states. We change over your driver's license, your register to vote, your primary residence. You know we get rid of your home in California, for example, and then we move you to this country, we get everything accepted and then we move you offshore so that we can get rid of both the state tax and the federal tax, because, I mean, there's no point in doing this. You know you get rid of the federal, but you still have, you know, all of this state tax and that they're going to come after you forever because they're very, very abusive and very, in a lot of these states, are quite underwater, they're quite bankrupt and they need this excess capital coming in. So I'd say that's number one Now, with retirement accounts.
Speaker 2:What we often are doing are converting things to self-directed IRAs, and the nice thing is, with an SDIRA we can actually invest in many different things offshore. So, for example, we can invest in precious metals offshore, we can buy and sell real estate offshore, we can hold it all the income can all be tax deferred and depending if it's a Roth or if it's a traditional. But we do a lot with IRAs and then, even with these things, we do 1031 exchanges as well. Now, I'm sure you're aware, with the 1031 exchange it's a like for like, so it's a domestic for domestic. But once you move offshore, it's a foreign for foreign and it doesn't have to be the same country.
Speaker 2:So, for example, let's say that I help a client set up a portfolio overseas and they purchase real estate in Panama, but after five years they don't want the Panama real estate anymore. They want Costa Rican real estate. Well, you can still 1031 that and it'd be a step up. And as long as it's not being repatriated back to the United States, you're not paying any taxes on that. It's just a step up in this. So we can even 1031 internationally, which is super powerful and because a lot of my people are very much into tangible assets and like real estate and land and things like that, it is a very good option estate and land and things like that.
Speaker 1:It is a very good option. Very cool, Very cool. What do you think? Actually, let's go into some questions here that I'm pulling from that are going to be some of the most commonly asked questions on this topic here. So some of this is going to be kind of obvious and we kind of touched on it, but I'm going to ask it anyway. So first question here do U S citizens living abroad need to file a U S tax return?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. It is your legal responsibility as a U S tax person to file taxes on your worldwide income. No matter how it's structured, no matter where it is held, you must file your taxes and I absolutely support that on all levels. Very important.
Speaker 1:What is the foreign earned income exclusion, the F-E-I-E, and how much can I exclude in 2025? And it's okay if you don't know the exact amount, because it changes every year.
Speaker 2:I think. So the FEIE is 126,500 for the year 2025. It goes up every single year because it goes up with inflation.
Speaker 1:Very okay. And what is the difference between the bonafide residence test and the physical presence test?
Speaker 2:So the physical presence test is what you do in year one. It's 330 days inside of a foreign country. The bona fide residency test is your legal residency, your tax home. So we're moving that to a foreign country. You must have a legal residence for living in that country and then we need to change over the subject of ties, so driver's license, electricity bill, your gym membership. We build up a case, you have a set of facts and we need to change those facts. So year two onwards, we usually like doing the bona fide residency test, which allows you to spend slightly more time in the United States and is a little bit more flexible.
Speaker 2:What is the expiration tax or exit tax for US citizens or residences who renounce? So this is a little bit tricky because you need to talk about the covered expatriate versus the non-covered expatriate. It has to do with your overall net worth. So if it's a $2 million net worth or more, or you paid a certain amount in tax on average over the last several years, then you could be subject to an exit tax. Now usually we're able to reduce the overall net worth because there are gifting strategies. So we can do a staggered renunciation you can renounce and then your spouse can renounce, and then your spouse can renounce later on. We can try to do these types of strategies and get you under this. And, by the way, the IRS actually has examples on their website of exactly how the gifting strategy works, so we're just following the IRS literature.
Speaker 1:Which retirement destinations offer the best benefits for US expats?
Speaker 2:very popular place for Americans. About half of Panama City is foreigners. That means not just Americans but Canadians and other Latinos and lots of Europeans. I put Panama at the top of the list. Costa Rica is extremely popular, also potentially has zero tax. There are other popular places like Mexico. Except Mexico has a marginal tax rate of 35%, which is not what I'm looking for or most of my clients, but usually in Latin America there are some very, very good options for people Wonderful.
Speaker 1:What questions haven't I asked you, but should ask you?
Speaker 2:So a question that I get all of the time is can't I just structure everything offshore and then just leave all the money offshore and not pay taxes? Well, actually there's something called guilty tax and I highly encourage people to go and look this up. It's retained earnings offshore and most people it kind of pops the balloon when they start reading about the guilty tax. So I think that that's a very important topic that people should understand, and this has to do with the Trump administration, not from this term, but from his previous term. He brought on a lot of this to repatriate a lot of the funds. It was originally sourced to do the large multinational companies, but now it actually affects everyday people as well. So the guilty tax is an important one to understand.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. So now, what I want to know here is, for some of the people listening here, if they are interested in these topics, where can they start seeing if this makes sense and assessing what's the value in considering taking funds offshore to minimize risk exposure, and is it worth it? I imagine here now, if you're thinking about the tax advantages associated with living abroad, you're probably already interested in living abroad. You're probably not going to leave the country just for the tax savings, unless we have an extreme example. So what's the next step for the people who are listening to this stuff and want to further explore it?
Speaker 2:So we put on an annual summit every year at expatmoneysummitcom. Our next one is October 10th to 12th. It's free to attend. We have all of the lawyers and accountants and things like that that I work with. It's a very good stop. Previous guests are Congressman Dr Ron Paul, my friend and mentor Doug Casey. We've had billionaire Mark Faber on there. We've had lots of very prominent names on the speaking circuit for that. This is our fifth year running the summit. I think that's a very good step.
Speaker 2:If you're interested in learning it, we're not only talking about taxes, we're talking about immigration, we're talking about foreign investments, offshore banking, a lot of the lifestyle. So all of these other things that go into my work as well. You can check out expatmoneycom, where we've got the newsletter. We've got a very know the newsletter. You know we've got a very substantial newsletter. We do three times a week blog articles. We do monthly webinars, we do quarterly tours and trips a very, very vibrant community of you know let's call it hundreds of thousands of people who are involved in this and you know very happy to help your people, mark. You know very happy to to help your people, mark. You know whether they're just dipping their toe in the water and want to understand a little bit more or want to work directly with us. We're here to support you guys.
Speaker 1:All right, Wonderful, Wonderful Mikkel. Thank you so much for your time and I'm going to put those links in the show notes. Is there any, if there's any other calls to actions for for people they want to connect with you or learn more, or I'll?
Speaker 2:or those are the links I can put there, and no, I think expatmoneysummitcom and expatmoneycom, and then I mean you guys can also search our podcast, the expat money show. We've been going for about nine years straight on the podcast. So wherever you're listening to us today, you can look up Expat Money Show and hundreds upon hundreds of back episodes where we're going into a lot of these topics in very great detail. So if you are curious or interested in these things, there is a lot to unpack.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Mikhail, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your insight. This is definitely something new we got to learn about today and stay tuned. It's always great to have wonderful guests providing a new insight, and I really appreciate our conversation.
Speaker 2:Pleasure's all mine. Thanks, Mark.